How to Pay Yourself and Still Grow Your Firm
- May 8, 2025
- 3 min read
Updated: Dec 12, 2025
Frances Joseph is a fractional CFO who helps law firm owners gain clarity, confidence, and control over their finances. With a deep understanding of both accounting and mindset, Frances joins the show to talk about why lawyers need to stop treating their business like an afterthought and start building something sustainable. This episode is a must-listen for anyone running—or dreaming of running—a law firm.
About This Episode
Background
Frances Joseph didn’t plan to work in accounting—she wanted to be a doctor. But after a short stint in medical school, she realized it wasn’t the path for her. Pressured to pick a profession, she walked into a KPMG office one day and asked for a job. They told her to come back once she had accounting training—and she did.
“I was very young and didn’t know how things worked. So at that point I saw a door and I just walked through it," shares Frances Joseph on You Are A Lawyer.
Frances eventually built a career in corporate accounting before transitioning into consulting and CFO work. It was during her time in a forensics and litigation division that she discovered how financially disorganized many lawyers are—and how much opportunity there was to support them.
Why Lawyers Need Accounting Support
Frances was drawn to working with lawyers because she saw how much they struggled with the financial side of running a business. Most lawyers are trained to think like legal problem-solvers, not business owners. And when they do start their own firms, they’re often flying blind.
“Every single one of my clients said to me at the beginning of the engagement, 'I hate numbers'," reflects Frances Joseph on Episode 191 of You Are a Lawyer.
She found joy in helping lawyers transform that mindset. For Frances, finance isn’t just about numbers; it’s about control, clarity, and confidence. Watching a lawyer realize they can actually hit revenue goals or pay themselves a real salary? That’s where the magic happens.
What A CFO Can Do For You
For many lawyers, a CFO sounds like something only a big firm needs. Frances explains that even solo and small firm owners benefit from this kind of guidance—and it doesn’t have to be expensive. A fractional CFO can help you set goals, create profit plans, and exit-proof your business.
“You owe it to yourself to understand what's going on in your business so that it can be a going concern," emphasizes Frances Joseph on Episode 191 of You Are a Lawyer.
By working with someone like Frances, lawyers gain a roadmap for growth and peace of mind. It’s not about micromanaging every transaction—it’s about seeing the big picture and knowing where your firm is headed.
Financial Mindset & Profit First
Frances is a firm believer in "Profit First"—a model that flips traditional accounting on its head. Instead of treating profit as what’s left over, her clients decide on their profit upfront and spend only what’s left after setting that money aside.
“The regular accounting formula is revenue minus expenses equals profit. And we're now saying revenue minus profits equals expenses,” shares Frances Joseph in Episode 191 of You Are a Lawyer.
She also helps clients deal with money shame, scarcity mindsets, and the fear of being financially visible. For Frances, numbers aren’t scary—they’re powerful tools. She makes accounting approachable and fun, and she helps lawyers feel in control of their future.
About Frances Joseph
Frances is not licensed to practice law.
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